This is all very sensible and I wish more people would follow it. I'm debating what to do about vaccination timing right now. I was hoping to hold off to November or even early December to have better protection over the holiday season (often a peak of contacts and infections). But now I'm wondering.
Yeah, good question RE timing. I don't know what the timeline for how well vaccines work these days is. I have in my head three months of solid protection, but I can't back that up at all.
My personal inclination is that if we are in the earlyish days of a new wave, it's probably a pretty good time to vaccinate, as the next month is likely to be risky. If we're following the same pattern as the UK data (https://ukhsa-dashboard.data.gov.uk/respiratory-viruses/covid-19#cases) says we did last year, peak is actually in October, and by December we're down to baseline. I don't have any confidence in that being a reliable predictor though.
My impression was that covid vaccination these days got at most three months of detectable protection from infection, but that could be very little protection indeed, and we'll really only know in retrospect, if anyone does the study. Plus likely some unquantified protection from severe reactions. I was hoping for max protection around the large work meeting I'm required to attend a week before visiting vulnerable relatives for Christmas but will ponder given the current wave. Was quite impressed my trainer asked me to test before coming to outdoor training last night when I said I was feeling off, but I did offer first.
Immunology is a weak point of mine but my understanding is that the body just isn't very good at forming an immune memory that protects against infection by omicron variants, whether that's from vaccination or infection. The most vulnerable people were offered boosters every 6 months and that might help a little if you want to, but I’m not sure the vaccine is licenced for use more frequently than that so you’d have to stay on the ball to stay in “autumn booster” timing. Or be economic with the truth.
I was mostly wondering about the economic with the truth option tbh. Like if you want to protect against the current increases (which a friend pointed out happens right after school starts, which given the current "go to school even if you have COVID" NHS recommendations makes a lot of sense!) and also a specific event a few months later, it doesn't seem crazy to me to get two vaccines two months apart and just... forget to mention that you've already had one.
But I'm not a doctor or anything, so this is just wild speculation about whether it's a stupid idea rather than an actual recommendation.
Chiming in a month later to say I got the covid & flu vaccines today (when I otherwise would have procrastinated for a long time and maybe missed the season altogether) because I happened to read this a couple weeks before I'm travelling, and I have N99s coming in the mail even though I haven't owned a mask since the pandemic (I don't know anyone immunocompromised and I live in a deep red state where you take a strong social penalty for wearing a mask in public so I didn't bother), so fwiw this article has a lingering positive effect
I confess I hadn't gotten around to book mine (I was deliberately waiting a bit on the COVID vaccine because of my recent bout of COVID and somewhere between procrastinating on the flu shot and wanting to get it at the same time), so this comment in turn got me to get off my ass and book it for Monday, so thanks in turn!
Notes: Wearing an elastomeric respirator can be uncomfortable and is often overkill. However, they do often form good seals (some modern ones even have seal check buttons), they last a long time, they can be cleaned, and some are even designed for source control.
I often wear one, and I've noticed online that some people seem afraid to wear one for social reasons. In my experience wearing one, nobody really cares that much, though a friend of mine has gotten negative comments. (I do put cute stickers on mine, which might help.)
Hmm. I had sortof dismissed wearing them based on how weird they look, but maybe I shouldn't have. Thanks, I'll have a think about it.
I'm about to start a regular commute, and already plan to mask on it, and had been planning on wearing a reasonably good reusable mask. Maybe I should plan to upgrade to one of these.
This post inspired me to get both the covid and flu vaccines.
Timeline if of interest:
Saturday afternoon: Got vaccinated
Saturday night: Attended party, felt somewhat fatigued, left a bit early.
Sunday: Woke up with sore arm. No fever at any point but over the next few days I did feel unusually fatigued, slept more than usual. I suspect this is generally how my immune system deals with something that doesn't rise to the level of needing to raise body temperature and pull out all the stops.
I'm not sure how much I should bother masking (when healthy) now that I've been vaccinated though (I hate wearing a mask)
I found a way to quickly find out how much vaccines cost at different chemists (pharmacists). Log in to Patient Access with your NHS login, click Book Appointment, then search for Covid Vaccination Private, and you'll see a map with prices on it like on AirBnB. This revealed a £40 option near where I live - much cheaper than I had found by automating a google search!
What do you think the benefit of testing for COVID is? Wouldn't the same advice to avoid unmasked interactions with people apply if it's not COVID but you have the flu or another contagious respiratory virus?
(Given my health status I wouldn't seek prescription treatment for COVID)
It elevates the severity with which you should treat any given level of symptoms. It's also a good way of knowing when you've stopped being contagious, as there will often be a long lingering malaise and post-viral cough long after you've stopped being able to spread the virus.
For example, on the Saturday I mentioned I had a bit of a sore throat. I would not have restricted my interactions based on having a bit of a sore throat. If I had tested positive for COVID, I absolutely would not have gone to my friends' place.
In general, it's very hard to tell how infectious you are, and a positive COVID test is a pretty clear signal that you're infectious with something pretty bad. If combined COVID/Flu tests were cheap and easy to come by, I'd probably recommend the same protocol for flu.
I probably *wouldn't* recommend the same level of precaution if you just have a rhinovirus (the most common type of cold virus), although I think some caution is still warranted, as they tend to be relatively minor for most people.
I don't think it's unreasonable to have this level of caution any time you have any sort of symptoms, but I think it probably is unreasonable to expect that to be a widely spread norm. These precautions are quite costly (in terms of emotional energy, life limiting, etc), and there's a lot of false positives about whether you're currently ill. e.g. non-allergic rhinitis is fairly common (which isn't infectious at all! But it sure looks like it), parents who have to follow these sorts of restrictions every time they have a cold basically are never going to be able to interact normally with another human being until their kids are all off to university. Regardless of whether you think people should do it anyway, they're clearly not going to.
(And "they" includes me here. My body is constantly throwing off false signals of illnesses, as well as falling prey to minor colds etc. and there's only so cautious I can be about that without going insane)
Thanks for this article. I had got the impression - from my workplace, and from other people around me - that COVID was no longer regarded as "something pretty bad" but just on the same level as having a cold.
I think a lot of people treat it that way! They're just wrong.
It's not going to kill you unless something goes very unexpectedly badly, and many people who get COVID do get away with it being no worse than a cold, but it wiped me out for weeks recently, and I know several others in the same boat.
This makes it bad enough to be worth taking reasonable amounts of effort to avoid getting, and certainly to avoid passing on, even before one gets to concerns about long COVID (which I remain confused about how to reason about, but clearly shouldn't be discounted entirely as a risk).
Good advice here. I feel though one reason why people do not stick to more strict norms around being sick is for two reasons, which admittedly probably only applies to people who have not been serioiusly ill:
1. You feel closed off from your usual social group.
2. Being sick is actually one of the few completely socially and culturally sanctioned things where people allow themselves to relax and not feel bad about it. Work places usually have most understanding for this as well.
So while I share the idea that norms around sickness could and probably shoud be better, there are also some decent reasons why they are not.
Edit: Why are options to vax/mask not mentioned *in the medical field?*Or in addition to? Medical voices have left people terrified and feeling helpless over the last six years.
There are several nose sprays available that *coat* the interior of the nose so that virus cannot attach.
Profi Nasal Spray is one. Use three times a day.
Xlear Nasal spray has grapefruit seed and xylitol, which can be used throughout the day and has antibacterial properties.
NoWonder/Enovid apparently works very well but is expensive.
Azelastine antihistamine (not a brand, but the name of the actual antihistamine) blocks the ACE2 receptor, so Covid virus can’t attach.
Also, the saline nose spray/neti pot rinse is absolutely a valuable tool. This is not an old wives tale. Been in a big crowd for a while? Get out the saline spray and gargle as well. Cheap and effective.
Additionally, vitamin D and vitamin D levels are never ever discussed by the medical establishment. Low vitamin D levels have been implicated with poor Covid outcomes.
There is NAC. And natural antivirals such as elderberry and oregano oil.
Black seed oil for inflammation.
Finally sitting in the sun, if it is available, is highly recommended if you’re sick with Covid. This is not RFK loony ranting.
(Obviously, sitting in the sun, comes along with all the caveats of safety)
I'm just some guy writing down some stuff that I know. I feel like this is pretty clear from the tone of the article. I have tried very hard to only give recommendations I have confidence in, and to not claim any expertise I lack. This necessarily means that I have not done a deep literature review of all the things that might or might not help with COVID, and I don't intend to, and even if I did the article would almost certainly have something else that someone else is wondering why I didn't write about that. Such is the nature of writing - you either write something so long that nobody reads it, or you write something that people complain about absences and omissions.
On the specific omissions: These are all deliberate, in the sense that I don't know about most of this stuff, and don't have enough confidence in the ones I believe in to want to recommend them, and some of them I even actively disbelieve. At least one of them I agree it might help and said so in the article (gargling and saline spray)!
I hope they help you, but I'm not going to write an article claiming that they're worth trying without a lot more confidence in their efficacy than I have. If you want to write a well-evidenced article with this advice that meets the standards I'm trying to hold to here, I would be happy to link to it, but I'm not the person to write that article.
Pardon my rant. Although it was on your personal post, it wasn’t directed at you, personally. At all. It’s more of a space to complain to other commenters in general about the absolute lack of reasonable discussion about these topics.
And maybe just one person will do one of those things and won’t get sick or get very sick as a result of it and then not infect other people who may get very sick and maybe someone won’t die. My hope.
You were absolutely right on about the saline spray and shouldn’t apologize for that.
This is all very sensible and I wish more people would follow it. I'm debating what to do about vaccination timing right now. I was hoping to hold off to November or even early December to have better protection over the holiday season (often a peak of contacts and infections). But now I'm wondering.
Yeah, good question RE timing. I don't know what the timeline for how well vaccines work these days is. I have in my head three months of solid protection, but I can't back that up at all.
My personal inclination is that if we are in the earlyish days of a new wave, it's probably a pretty good time to vaccinate, as the next month is likely to be risky. If we're following the same pattern as the UK data (https://ukhsa-dashboard.data.gov.uk/respiratory-viruses/covid-19#cases) says we did last year, peak is actually in October, and by December we're down to baseline. I don't have any confidence in that being a reliable predictor though.
My impression was that covid vaccination these days got at most three months of detectable protection from infection, but that could be very little protection indeed, and we'll really only know in retrospect, if anyone does the study. Plus likely some unquantified protection from severe reactions. I was hoping for max protection around the large work meeting I'm required to attend a week before visiting vulnerable relatives for Christmas but will ponder given the current wave. Was quite impressed my trainer asked me to test before coming to outdoor training last night when I said I was feeling off, but I did offer first.
That makes sense. I'd definitely expect your impressions of COVID vaccine efficacy to be more accurate than mine. Sad that it's less than I thought.
And yes, I'm pleasantly surprised when I run into people taking testing seriously too!
This is maybe a dumb question but... Could you just vaccinate twice?
Immunology is a weak point of mine but my understanding is that the body just isn't very good at forming an immune memory that protects against infection by omicron variants, whether that's from vaccination or infection. The most vulnerable people were offered boosters every 6 months and that might help a little if you want to, but I’m not sure the vaccine is licenced for use more frequently than that so you’d have to stay on the ball to stay in “autumn booster” timing. Or be economic with the truth.
I was mostly wondering about the economic with the truth option tbh. Like if you want to protect against the current increases (which a friend pointed out happens right after school starts, which given the current "go to school even if you have COVID" NHS recommendations makes a lot of sense!) and also a specific event a few months later, it doesn't seem crazy to me to get two vaccines two months apart and just... forget to mention that you've already had one.
But I'm not a doctor or anything, so this is just wild speculation about whether it's a stupid idea rather than an actual recommendation.
I don't know, but I suspect that if repeated doses worked markedly better someone would be trying to sell it as an option
Chiming in a month later to say I got the covid & flu vaccines today (when I otherwise would have procrastinated for a long time and maybe missed the season altogether) because I happened to read this a couple weeks before I'm travelling, and I have N99s coming in the mail even though I haven't owned a mask since the pandemic (I don't know anyone immunocompromised and I live in a deep red state where you take a strong social penalty for wearing a mask in public so I didn't bother), so fwiw this article has a lingering positive effect
I confess I hadn't gotten around to book mine (I was deliberately waiting a bit on the COVID vaccine because of my recent bout of COVID and somewhere between procrastinating on the flu shot and wanting to get it at the same time), so this comment in turn got me to get off my ass and book it for Monday, so thanks in turn!
Notes: Wearing an elastomeric respirator can be uncomfortable and is often overkill. However, they do often form good seals (some modern ones even have seal check buttons), they last a long time, they can be cleaned, and some are even designed for source control.
I often wear one, and I've noticed online that some people seem afraid to wear one for social reasons. In my experience wearing one, nobody really cares that much, though a friend of mine has gotten negative comments. (I do put cute stickers on mine, which might help.)
Hmm. I had sortof dismissed wearing them based on how weird they look, but maybe I shouldn't have. Thanks, I'll have a think about it.
I'm about to start a regular commute, and already plan to mask on it, and had been planning on wearing a reasonably good reusable mask. Maybe I should plan to upgrade to one of these.
This post inspired me to get both the covid and flu vaccines.
Timeline if of interest:
Saturday afternoon: Got vaccinated
Saturday night: Attended party, felt somewhat fatigued, left a bit early.
Sunday: Woke up with sore arm. No fever at any point but over the next few days I did feel unusually fatigued, slept more than usual. I suspect this is generally how my immune system deals with something that doesn't rise to the level of needing to raise body temperature and pull out all the stops.
I'm not sure how much I should bother masking (when healthy) now that I've been vaccinated though (I hate wearing a mask)
I think there's no obligation to mask when healthy these days unless you're around people who have a very strong preference or need for you to do so.
I'm planning to start typically masking while on public transport over the winter, and *maybe* in supermarkets, but probably not beyond that.
I found a way to quickly find out how much vaccines cost at different chemists (pharmacists). Log in to Patient Access with your NHS login, click Book Appointment, then search for Covid Vaccination Private, and you'll see a map with prices on it like on AirBnB. This revealed a £40 option near where I live - much cheaper than I had found by automating a google search!
What do you think the benefit of testing for COVID is? Wouldn't the same advice to avoid unmasked interactions with people apply if it's not COVID but you have the flu or another contagious respiratory virus?
(Given my health status I wouldn't seek prescription treatment for COVID)
It elevates the severity with which you should treat any given level of symptoms. It's also a good way of knowing when you've stopped being contagious, as there will often be a long lingering malaise and post-viral cough long after you've stopped being able to spread the virus.
For example, on the Saturday I mentioned I had a bit of a sore throat. I would not have restricted my interactions based on having a bit of a sore throat. If I had tested positive for COVID, I absolutely would not have gone to my friends' place.
In general, it's very hard to tell how infectious you are, and a positive COVID test is a pretty clear signal that you're infectious with something pretty bad. If combined COVID/Flu tests were cheap and easy to come by, I'd probably recommend the same protocol for flu.
I probably *wouldn't* recommend the same level of precaution if you just have a rhinovirus (the most common type of cold virus), although I think some caution is still warranted, as they tend to be relatively minor for most people.
I don't think it's unreasonable to have this level of caution any time you have any sort of symptoms, but I think it probably is unreasonable to expect that to be a widely spread norm. These precautions are quite costly (in terms of emotional energy, life limiting, etc), and there's a lot of false positives about whether you're currently ill. e.g. non-allergic rhinitis is fairly common (which isn't infectious at all! But it sure looks like it), parents who have to follow these sorts of restrictions every time they have a cold basically are never going to be able to interact normally with another human being until their kids are all off to university. Regardless of whether you think people should do it anyway, they're clearly not going to.
(And "they" includes me here. My body is constantly throwing off false signals of illnesses, as well as falling prey to minor colds etc. and there's only so cautious I can be about that without going insane)
Thanks. I got the covid & flu vaxx today because of this post
Thanks for this article. I had got the impression - from my workplace, and from other people around me - that COVID was no longer regarded as "something pretty bad" but just on the same level as having a cold.
I think a lot of people treat it that way! They're just wrong.
It's not going to kill you unless something goes very unexpectedly badly, and many people who get COVID do get away with it being no worse than a cold, but it wiped me out for weeks recently, and I know several others in the same boat.
This makes it bad enough to be worth taking reasonable amounts of effort to avoid getting, and certainly to avoid passing on, even before one gets to concerns about long COVID (which I remain confused about how to reason about, but clearly shouldn't be discounted entirely as a risk).
Good advice here. I feel though one reason why people do not stick to more strict norms around being sick is for two reasons, which admittedly probably only applies to people who have not been serioiusly ill:
1. You feel closed off from your usual social group.
2. Being sick is actually one of the few completely socially and culturally sanctioned things where people allow themselves to relax and not feel bad about it. Work places usually have most understanding for this as well.
So while I share the idea that norms around sickness could and probably shoud be better, there are also some decent reasons why they are not.
Edit: Why are options to vax/mask not mentioned *in the medical field?*Or in addition to? Medical voices have left people terrified and feeling helpless over the last six years.
There are several nose sprays available that *coat* the interior of the nose so that virus cannot attach.
Profi Nasal Spray is one. Use three times a day.
Xlear Nasal spray has grapefruit seed and xylitol, which can be used throughout the day and has antibacterial properties.
NoWonder/Enovid apparently works very well but is expensive.
Azelastine antihistamine (not a brand, but the name of the actual antihistamine) blocks the ACE2 receptor, so Covid virus can’t attach.
Also, the saline nose spray/neti pot rinse is absolutely a valuable tool. This is not an old wives tale. Been in a big crowd for a while? Get out the saline spray and gargle as well. Cheap and effective.
Additionally, vitamin D and vitamin D levels are never ever discussed by the medical establishment. Low vitamin D levels have been implicated with poor Covid outcomes.
There is NAC. And natural antivirals such as elderberry and oregano oil.
Black seed oil for inflammation.
Finally sitting in the sun, if it is available, is highly recommended if you’re sick with Covid. This is not RFK loony ranting.
(Obviously, sitting in the sun, comes along with all the caveats of safety)
Some things worth noting.
I'm just some guy writing down some stuff that I know. I feel like this is pretty clear from the tone of the article. I have tried very hard to only give recommendations I have confidence in, and to not claim any expertise I lack. This necessarily means that I have not done a deep literature review of all the things that might or might not help with COVID, and I don't intend to, and even if I did the article would almost certainly have something else that someone else is wondering why I didn't write about that. Such is the nature of writing - you either write something so long that nobody reads it, or you write something that people complain about absences and omissions.
On the specific omissions: These are all deliberate, in the sense that I don't know about most of this stuff, and don't have enough confidence in the ones I believe in to want to recommend them, and some of them I even actively disbelieve. At least one of them I agree it might help and said so in the article (gargling and saline spray)!
I hope they help you, but I'm not going to write an article claiming that they're worth trying without a lot more confidence in their efficacy than I have. If you want to write a well-evidenced article with this advice that meets the standards I'm trying to hold to here, I would be happy to link to it, but I'm not the person to write that article.
Pardon my rant. Although it was on your personal post, it wasn’t directed at you, personally. At all. It’s more of a space to complain to other commenters in general about the absolute lack of reasonable discussion about these topics.
And maybe just one person will do one of those things and won’t get sick or get very sick as a result of it and then not infect other people who may get very sick and maybe someone won’t die. My hope.
You were absolutely right on about the saline spray and shouldn’t apologize for that.